Osmose uden kulfilter

[Gzus.dk]

Hej

Jeg har købt følgende osmoseanlæg hos Waterpilot (http://www.waterpilot.com/catalog/produ ... ts_id=1754), men det er først gået op for mig nu hvor jeg har modtaget det, at det ikke har et kulfilter i sig.

Er det nødvendigt med et kulfilter når man skal bruge vandet til at akvariet ? Hvad fjerner kul filteret som membranen ikke gør ?



/Morten N

[Gzus.dk]

Er der slet ingen der har noget input til dette ?


/Morten N

[ole kekkonen]

hejsa,mål udgangen med et alminelig hobby kit for po4(næring generelt) og brug et af de billige håndholdte tds målere på ebay det skal meget gerne måle 0 ellers må det forlænges,membranerne der laver flere liter pr time (de billige) slammer hurtigere til.

[Carsten]

Et kul filter tager jo kun farve og en evt lugt ved vandet. Jeg vil mene at det for så godt som alle er helt overflødigt at have det.

[dybet]

Enig med carsten.
Vi har heller ikke "klor" i vandet herhjemme (som ville ødelægge membranen), så kul filteret er ikke strengt nødvendigt.


What is RO/DI ?

RO/DI stands for Reverse Osmosis and Deionization. The product is a multi-stage water filter, which takes ordinary tap water in and produces highly purified water.
Why do I need it?
Tap water often contains impurities that can cause problems when added to an aquarium. These may include phosphates, nitrates, chlorine, and various heavy metals. Phosphates and nitrates can cause algae blooms. Copper is often present in tap water due to leaching from pipes and is highly toxic to invertebrates. A RO/DI filter removes practically all of these impurities.
How does it work?
There are typically four stages in an RO/DI filter: sediment filter, carbon block, reverse osmosis membrane, and deionization resin. If there are less than four stages, something was left out (typically the DI stage). If there are more, something was duplicated.
The sediment filter, typically a foam block, removes particles from the water. Its purpose is to prevent clogging of the carbon block and RO membrane. Good sediment filters will remove particles down to one micron or smaller.
The carbon, typically a block of powdered activated carbon, filters out smaller particles (often down to 1/2 micron or smaller), adsorbs some dissolved compounds, and deactivates chlorine. The latter is the most important part: free chlorine in the water will destroy the RO membrane.
The RO membrane is a semi-permeable thin film. Water is forced through it under pressure. Molecules which are larger/heavier than water (which is very small/light) penetrate the membrane less easily and tend to be left behind.
The DI resin exchanges the remaining ions, removing them from the solution.
Do I need a DI stage?
You can save some money by purchasing a three-stage filter lacking the DI stage. Reverse osmosis typically removes 90-98% of all the impurities of note. If that is good enough for your purposes, then the DI stage is not necessary. RO filtration by itself is certainly better than plain tap water and in many cases is perfectly adequate.
RO filtration by itself is not adequate if your tap water contains undesirable elements that need to be reduced by more than 90-98%. For example, if there is 10 PPM of phosphates in your tap water, reducing it by 90% takes it to 1 PPM, which is still too high.
To save money up front, a DI stage can be easily added to the system at a later date.
Can I use just DI?
A DI stage by itself (without the other RO filter stages) will produce water that is pretty much free of dissolved solids. However, DI resin is fairly expensive and will last only about 1/20th as long when used by itself. If you're only going to buy RO or DI, go for the RO unless only small amounts of purified water are needed.
Do I care about GPD?
RO/DI capacities are measured in gallons per day (GPD), typically in the 25 -100 GPD range. The main difference between them is the size or permeability of the RO membrane. Other differences are:
(a) The flow restrictor that determines how much waste water is produced, which must match the membrane, and
(b) The water gets less contact time in the carbon and DI stages in high-GPD units than low-GPD units.
As the GPD rating increases, the purity of the water produced by the RO membrane declines. Membranes above 35 GPD are typically constructed by welding two smaller membranes, meaning there's a seam. 100 GPD membranes are typically more permeable, with a lower rejection rate. The DI stage will make up the difference by removing the remaining impurities but that affects the life of the DI resin.
Most aquarists won't use more than 25 GPD averaged over time. If a decent size storage container is used, that size should be adequate. A higher GPD rating comes in handy, however, when filling a large tank for the first time or in emergencies when a lot of water is necessary in a hurry.
The advertised GPD values assume ideal conditions, notably optimum water pressure (65 PSI) and temperature (70?F). The purity of your tap water also affects it. In other words, your mileage will vary.
What if I have chloramine in my water?
Some water agencies add chloramine (a mix of ammonia and chlorine) to disinfect drinking water. That's fine, except some carbon blocks are inadequate to neutralize chloramine, so it damages your TFC membrane. It can also pass right through an RO membrane and DI resin, yielding ammonia in the resultant "pure" water. This is particularly a problem with high-GPD units.
To find out if you have chloramine in the water, check with your local water company. Chloramine use is particularly common in large municipalities.
If chloramine is present in your water supply, this should be discussed with the vendor prior to purchasing a system. The vendor may recommend a second carbon stage, a "catalytic" type of carbon filter, or a lower-GPD unit. At the time of this writing, the single best solution is not yet clear and a combination may be required. In any case, don't trust a vendor who isn't familiar with the problem.
What if I have well water?
Well water is free of chlorine so there's no need to worry about it attacking the RO membrane. Do not buy a CTA membrane if you have well water, as bacteria will destroy it. A carbon block is usually not needed for well water, but well water often contains higher levels of particulate matter than treated water. Consider adding a second particulate filter in place of the carbon. If your well is prone to "red" water problems due to iron bacteria, a back-flush option will help reduce membrane fouling.
Why are there multiple outputs?
An RO filter has two outputs: purified water and wastewater. A well-designed unit will have about four times as much wastewater as purified water. The idea is that the impurities that don't go through the membrane are flushed out with the wastewater.
There is nothing wrong with the wastewater except for a slightly elevated dissolved solid content. It may be cleaner than your tap water because of the sediment and carbon filters. Feel free to water your plants with it.
What is a TDS meter and do I need one?
A TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter measures the conductivity of the water, which is an indication of water purity. Without one, it's difficult to tell how well the RO/DI unit is working.
Read your tap water first. Readings in the 50-500 PPM range are typical for most households. The RO output should be less than 10% of the tap water. The DI reading should be 0 or 1. For example, if your tap water reads 200, the RO output should be less than 20 and the DI output should be 0 or 1.
Always let the unit run for a few minutes before measuring TDS on the output. The first half-gallon or so will normally have an elevated reading. That's because impurities will equalize across the RO membrane over time when the unit is idle.
New RO/DI units may need to be thoroughly flushed out before reading the TDS values. Let the manufacturer's instructions be your guide.
How do I know when the filter needs servicing?
Sediment and carbon stages: If you have city water (with chlorine) the sediment and carbon stages should be replaced regularly. The rule of thumb is every six months. Alternately, a swimming pool chlorine test can be used: the carbon is OK if the test reads as zero. This is less critical if you have well water. If you have a pressure gauge you can tell when the sediment & carbon filters are clogged: the pressure will start to drop.
RO membrane: There are two ways the RO membrane can fail. It can develop holes, allowing impurities through, or it can get clogged up. If the input pressure is OK but you're not getting the expected output, the membrane is probably clogged. If the TDS meter shows RO output above 10% of your tap water, it's developing holes. A RO membrane typically lasts 3-5 years.
DI resin: The TDS reading on your DI output should read 0 or 1. The DI resin is exhausted when the reading starts to climb. Some DI resins change color as they are exhausted. Note that the color will probably change well before the DI resin really needs to be replaced - use the TDS reading to decide when to replace the resin.
Do I need a pressure gauge?
The gauge that comes with some RO units measures the pressure on the input side of the membrane (or on the waste side, before the flow restrictor, which will give the same reading). This allows you to tell if there is adequate line pressure and if the sediment & carbon stages are getting clogged. Optimum input pressure is in the 60-80 PSI range. Below about 40 PSI the unit will operate less efficiently. The units are typically not rated to operate above 80-90 PSI.
Do I care about temperature?
The GPD ratings are for room temperature (~70 ? F). Colder water travels more slowly through the membrane, which reduces the output. If a high-GPD unit is connected to a cold water line, that can be a problem. Here's a solution from Marc Levenson:
You want approximately 25' or 30' feet of tubing from the connection at the cold water running to the RO/DI unit.
Fill a 5-gallon bucket with water, and coil the excess tubing in the bucket so it is submerged. Immerse a small aquarium heater set it to 78 degrees F. As the RO/DI unit kicks on, water in the tubing will be warmed up to 78 as well, since it processes rather slowly, and the membrane will be able to produce maximum output in the dead of winter.
Do I need a flush kit?
A flush kit allows periodic flushing of some water across the RO membrane, thereby removing some of the gunk that sticks to it. Regular flushing will extend the life of the membrane.What is RO/DI ?

RO/DI stands for Reverse Osmosis and Deionization. The product is a multi-stage water filter, which takes ordinary tap water in and produces highly purified water.
Why do I need it?
Tap water often contains impurities that can cause problems when added to an aquarium. These may include phosphates, nitrates, chlorine, and various heavy metals. Phosphates and nitrates can cause algae blooms. Copper is often present in tap water due to leaching from pipes and is highly toxic to invertebrates. A RO/DI filter removes practically all of these impurities.
How does it work?
There are typically four stages in an RO/DI filter: sediment filter, carbon block, reverse osmosis membrane, and deionization resin. If there are less than four stages, something was left out (typically the DI stage). If there are more, something was duplicated.
The sediment filter, typically a foam block, removes particles from the water. Its purpose is to prevent clogging of the carbon block and RO membrane. Good sediment filters will remove particles down to one micron or smaller.
The carbon, typically a block of powdered activated carbon, filters out smaller particles (often down to 1/2 micron or smaller), adsorbs some dissolved compounds, and deactivates chlorine. The latter is the most important part: free chlorine in the water will destroy the RO membrane.
The RO membrane is a semi-permeable thin film. Water is forced through it under pressure. Molecules which are larger/heavier than water (which is very small/light) penetrate the membrane less easily and tend to be left behind.
The DI resin exchanges the remaining ions, removing them from the solution.
Do I need a DI stage?
You can save some money by purchasing a three-stage filter lacking the DI stage. Reverse osmosis typically removes 90-98% of all the impurities of note. If that is good enough for your purposes, then the DI stage is not necessary. RO filtration by itself is certainly better than plain tap water and in many cases is perfectly adequate.
RO filtration by itself is not adequate if your tap water contains undesirable elements that need to be reduced by more than 90-98%. For example, if there is 10 PPM of phosphates in your tap water, reducing it by 90% takes it to 1 PPM, which is still too high.
To save money up front, a DI stage can be easily added to the system at a later date.
Can I use just DI?
A DI stage by itself (without the other RO filter stages) will produce water that is pretty much free of dissolved solids. However, DI resin is fairly expensive and will last only about 1/20th as long when used by itself. If you're only going to buy RO or DI, go for the RO unless only small amounts of purified water are needed.
Do I care about GPD?
RO/DI capacities are measured in gallons per day (GPD), typically in the 25 -100 GPD range. The main difference between them is the size or permeability of the RO membrane. Other differences are:
(a) The flow restrictor that determines how much waste water is produced, which must match the membrane, and
(b) The water gets less contact time in the carbon and DI stages in high-GPD units than low-GPD units.
As the GPD rating increases, the purity of the water produced by the RO membrane declines. Membranes above 35 GPD are typically constructed by welding two smaller membranes, meaning there's a seam. 100 GPD membranes are typically more permeable, with a lower rejection rate. The DI stage will make up the difference by removing the remaining impurities but that affects the life of the DI resin.
Most aquarists won't use more than 25 GPD averaged over time. If a decent size storage container is used, that size should be adequate. A higher GPD rating comes in handy, however, when filling a large tank for the first time or in emergencies when a lot of water is necessary in a hurry.
The advertised GPD values assume ideal conditions, notably optimum water pressure (65 PSI) and temperature (70?F). The purity of your tap water also affects it. In other words, your mileage will vary.
What if I have chloramine in my water?
Some water agencies add chloramine (a mix of ammonia and chlorine) to disinfect drinking water. That's fine, except some carbon blocks are inadequate to neutralize chloramine, so it damages your TFC membrane. It can also pass right through an RO membrane and DI resin, yielding ammonia in the resultant "pure" water. This is particularly a problem with high-GPD units.
To find out if you have chloramine in the water, check with your local water company. Chloramine use is particularly common in large municipalities.
If chloramine is present in your water supply, this should be discussed with the vendor prior to purchasing a system. The vendor may recommend a second carbon stage, a "catalytic" type of carbon filter, or a lower-GPD unit. At the time of this writing, the single best solution is not yet clear and a combination may be required. In any case, don't trust a vendor who isn't familiar with the problem.
What if I have well water?
Well water is free of chlorine so there's no need to worry about it attacking the RO membrane. Do not buy a CTA membrane if you have well water, as bacteria will destroy it. A carbon block is usually not needed for well water, but well water often contains higher levels of particulate matter than treated water. Consider adding a second particulate filter in place of the carbon. If your well is prone to "red" water problems due to iron bacteria, a back-flush option will help reduce membrane fouling.
Why are there multiple outputs?
An RO filter has two outputs: purified water and wastewater. A well-designed unit will have about four times as much wastewater as purified water. The idea is that the impurities that don't go through the membrane are flushed out with the wastewater.
There is nothing wrong with the wastewater except for a slightly elevated dissolved solid content. It may be cleaner than your tap water because of the sediment and carbon filters. Feel free to water your plants with it.
What is a TDS meter and do I need one?
A TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter measures the conductivity of the water, which is an indication of water purity. Without one, it's difficult to tell how well the RO/DI unit is working.
Read your tap water first. Readings in the 50-500 PPM range are typical for most households. The RO output should be less than 10% of the tap water. The DI reading should be 0 or 1. For example, if your tap water reads 200, the RO output should be less than 20 and the DI output should be 0 or 1.
Always let the unit run for a few minutes before measuring TDS on the output. The first half-gallon or so will normally have an elevated reading. That's because impurities will equalize across the RO membrane over time when the unit is idle.
New RO/DI units may need to be thoroughly flushed out before reading the TDS values. Let the manufacturer's instructions be your guide.
How do I know when the filter needs servicing?
Sediment and carbon stages: If you have city water (with chlorine) the sediment and carbon stages should be replaced regularly. The rule of thumb is every six months. Alternately, a swimming pool chlorine test can be used: the carbon is OK if the test reads as zero. This is less critical if you have well water. If you have a pressure gauge you can tell when the sediment & carbon filters are clogged: the pressure will start to drop.
RO membrane: There are two ways the RO membrane can fail. It can develop holes, allowing impurities through, or it can get clogged up. If the input pressure is OK but you're not getting the expected output, the membrane is probably clogged. If the TDS meter shows RO output above 10% of your tap water, it's developing holes. A RO membrane typically lasts 3-5 years.
DI resin: The TDS reading on your DI output should read 0 or 1. The DI resin is exhausted when the reading starts to climb. Some DI resins change color as they are exhausted. Note that the color will probably change well before the DI resin really needs to be replaced - use the TDS reading to decide when to replace the resin.
Do I need a pressure gauge?
The gauge that comes with some RO units measures the pressure on the input side of the membrane (or on the waste side, before the flow restrictor, which will give the same reading). This allows you to tell if there is adequate line pressure and if the sediment & carbon stages are getting clogged. Optimum input pressure is in the 60-80 PSI range. Below about 40 PSI the unit will operate less efficiently. The units are typically not rated to operate above 80-90 PSI.
Do I care about temperature?
The GPD ratings are for room temperature (~70 ? F). Colder water travels more slowly through the membrane, which reduces the output. If a high-GPD unit is connected to a cold water line, that can be a problem. Here's a solution from Marc Levenson:
You want approximately 25' or 30' feet of tubing from the connection at the cold water running to the RO/DI unit.
Fill a 5-gallon bucket with water, and coil the excess tubing in the bucket so it is submerged. Immerse a small aquarium heater set it to 78 degrees F. As the RO/DI unit kicks on, water in the tubing will be warmed up to 78 as well, since it processes rather slowly, and the membrane will be able to produce maximum output in the dead of winter.
Do I need a flush kit?
A flush kit allows periodic flushing of some water across the RO membrane, thereby removing some of the gunk that sticks to it. Regular flushing will extend the life of the membrane.

[Gzus.dk]

Varmer i vandet op som der står i beskrivelsen for et bedre output ?


/Morten N

[DennisJ]

Jeg kører med Boosterpumpe, så laver mine 2 membraner 10-15 liter i timen.
Tror det bliver dyrt i længden hvis du tager vandet fra den varme hane.

[Gzus.dk]

Jeg tænkte mere på det trick som beskrives i teksten, med en lang slange ført igennem en spand med opvarmet vand.



/Morten N

[Carsten]

Det vil være spild af varme at varme vandet op først. Der kommer nok lidt mere vand ud af anlægget, men prisen for at bruge varmt vand er alt for høj.
Varmtvand i en spand, er ikke varmt nok ret længe, især ikke hvis der er en slange med koldt vand som løber igennem.

[dybet]

Varmer i vandet op som der står i beskrivelsen for et bedre output ?


/Morten N

Tror også det mere er ment som en hjælp hvis man skal bruge en ordenlig r**fuld osmose på relativt kort tid.
fx. nå man fylder en (større) baljen første gang. man kan øge trykket, booster, og/eller hæve temperaturen.
Men til daglig er det nok spild af strøm.

[Carsten]

Osmoseanlægget yder mest ved 25 grader, og et vand tryk på 5 bar.
Men det er de færreste der har et vandtryk der er så stort, uden en trykpumpe.
Og det ikke så forfærdeligt meget mere vand der kommer igennem ved at bruge varmt vand.

Hvis man har behov for rigtigt mange liter vand meget hurtigt, så er et mixbed filter sagen.
Det er desværre også knald dyrt i indkøb.

[andersla]

jeg har også lige fået det samme anlæg igår og det er bare fin kvalitet og god service de har jeg bestilte i søndags

[Gzus.dk]

Det eneste problem jeg havde, var at jeg havde skrevet en alternativ leveringsadresse til mit arbejde, men at de sendte pakken til min hjemmeadresse.


/Morten N

[Rent Postevand]

What is RO/DI ?
Det var dog en ualmindelig velskrevet artikel. Her står vist alt, der er værd at vide om omvendt osmoseanlæg og DI filtrering.
Tak for klippet
Michael