Hej alle

[UKChris]

Jeg hedder Chris og jeg kommer fra England.

Jeg bor i Ringsted og mit dansk er ikke saa godt.

So sorry guys but from there I have to swap to English. I've lived in Denmark for a little while now and I really should be better talking and writing Danish but too many people can speak English in Denmark so they swap when I struggle with the langauge.

I've been planning a new setup for a little while now, and just ordered a new aquarium 180x70x70 with optical white glass at the front and the sump will be 120x50x50 so after rock and everything is in place it should be around 900 litres. I have a long list of equipment I would like for the aquarium but the one thing that can be a cause of great debates is that I will be using LED modules and wish to try SPS under them once the aquarium is stable and mature.

So as the title says - Hi everyone

Chris.

[DennisJ]

Hi Chris,

Welcome to the forum, and the hobby ;o)

Looking forward to reading about your project as it comes along. What type of Led modules are you looking at?

Dennis

[UKChris]

Dennis, I have been looking at the Pacific Sun modules, I have been reading good things about them and I know a couple of guys on this forum have them too.

[Peters1]

Hi and welcome:-)

Sound like a great serup and I Will look forward to see some pics as the setup developes
And as time goes on we will have to work on your Danish (so that I dont have to struggle with my english

[Renè Svenson]

jamen hajsa med dig kan sku kun dansk..hehe men det går nok.

[Tobias]

Hey and welcome Chris :'D

Looking forward to see your plans about the aquarium come true!

A offtopic question: My Family and I are going to London this saturday, and i wanted to ask, if you knew anything about if there is a saltwater store, or just a fish store somewhere in London? (if yes, do you know where?) I'm looking for an AquaClear PowerFilter (AC70) and i know that you can buy it in Britain.

[leifkrarup]

Hi again Chris! .....Came to think that I made a Pacific Sun review here on SF, don´t know if you´ve seen it. Even if you don´t speak (or read danish) there are som pix of the tank with my 2 PS units showing the colours with different mixes of blue and white LED´s.
By the way I´m starting to see signs of growth on my SPS....just compared with a photos taken 1 mth. ago.

[Holst]

Hey Chris and welcome.

Looking forward to hear more about your setup and to follow it develop to 'eye candy'.

When you got all your gear you can start a thread in here http://www.saltvandsforum.dk/viewforum.php?f=95
800 litres ++


But welcome to Denmark and Saltvandsforum.dk

[UKChris]

Thanks for the welcome, I will be sure to take lots of pictures as things take shape. First I will be building the table for it, all I need is to wait for the wood to arrive this week. The tank will sit behind a false wall in the lounge so I have lots to build.

Tobias, I will look to see what I can find for you, are you only going to central london or can you travel a little further?

Leif, I haven't seen that thread I will go take a look, and it's great to hear you are getting some growth under the LED's, the Pacific Sun website has been updated with the new Master/Slave units but it only works out 100 euro cheaper than buying 3 BT EX units.

[Hougaard]

Hi Chris,

As it stands with LEDs right now - my take is that they are too expensive and not effective enough yet. So if I where you, I would start out with T5's or HQI, wait a couple of years and see how its going with the LEDs.

/Erik

[Tobias]

I think that we are going to central london. I only know that we are going to live close to St Paul's Cathedral.

[leifkrarup]

Hi Chris,

As it stands with LEDs right now - my take is that they are too expensive and not effective enough yet. So if I where you, I would start out with T5's or HQI, wait a couple of years and see how its going with the LEDs.

/Erik

Do you have any experience with LED´s or is it just an assumption?
As said before: if you compare to other solutions with advanced controllers built in, LED´s aren´t more expensive...on the contrary!. ie. Giesemann Infinity Moonlight....and the controller in this unit is far less advanced.
If my units proves to grow SPS as effectively as my old ATI 8 bulb fixture I would say that they certaintly are effective enough (and they seems to!..need a couple of weeks more to tell for sure though!)
There are som advantages even at this initial stage of LED developement...less power consumption, no need for chillers and full control regarding colour and PAR during the day.
I agree with you that LED´s will be more effective in the future (but not cheaper though!) ...but the question here is whether or not they´re sufficient effective now and if the price is right given that you want less consumption, less heat and an advanced controller.
Lets say that Chris buys buys ie. Ati fixtures to cover a tank that size plus bulbs, it would be an considerable expense.. add to that a chiller, higher power consumption and exchange of bulbs every 9-12 mths. Then after ie. two years he´d have to sell second hand at roughly 50% belowe his initial investment to buy the LED units he really wanted to begin with...then I´m pretty sure the expence will be far more than if he bought the LED´s available now.
So IMHO it´s not that simple.
I do not recommend anybody to buy LED´s now...but in the end it all depends on what you want!

[Hougaard]

Hi Left,

Did you miss the "my take"

But it clarify my statement:

Price: As it stands right now, I cannot buy a LED based lamp that will compete price- and performancewise with lumenarc based hqi's. I know that their are only for buildin, but none the less, thats my baseline - I cannot use a comparison to the most expensive lamp out there. Leds are way to expensive right now. If they are going into streetlights, buildings, cars etc, the price will plummet quite fast.

Effectiveness: I'm still missing PAR readings on most lamps, and the one I have seen does not suggest the same amount of saving that has been talked about. Why is it so difficult for a aquarium lamp producer to place a Quantum meter beneath a lamp ?

[leifkrarup]

But if you want a computerized lamp you have to compare with the most expensive "lamps out there" since there´s no other option.
You also have to take in consideration the cost of running various light sources...replacing of bulbs and energy consumption even if you´re building a "cheap" fixture yourself.
As for the price of LED units I don´t think they´ll be cheaper as prices for LED´s come down. This is a hobby and the prices on our "gear" is way to high allready and does no way reflect the prices on material at all.
The manufactureres know that it is a market where people are willing to pay what ever necessary to get the best equipment.
As I have written before, as an exampel, there is no reason why a skimmer made of a piece of plexiglass and a pump should cost 5-6-7-8-9.000 kr, theese prices reflects no way the production/manufacturing costs.
You`ll see in future that the prices for LED units will not come down as prices for LED´s do
As for PAR...have you seen the video on YouTube where you follow PAR readings on various depths of the Pacific Sun unit? To me these readings, if not tampered with, is quite satisfactory.
If, and only if, my SPS corals shows satifying growth within the next couple of weeks I will warmly recommend theese lamps, and as said earlier I´m starting to see positive signs on growth after only 2-3 weeks....after any significant change in source of light, SPS needs some time for adjustment they needed that also when I went from HQI to T5.
If growt proves satisfactory what I gain is: Less energy consumption, no need for chiller (which´s a pain in the a.. soundwise), no need for bulb replacement, full control with PAR and colour.
To me at least theese advantages are worth a lot!
We´ll see!

[Gzus.dk]

As for PAR...have you seen the video on YouTube where you follow PAR readings on various depths of the Pacific Sun unit? To me these readings, if not tampered with, is quite satisfactory.

Hi Leif

Do you have a link for this video ?


/Morten N

[UKChris]

Guys, I have been reading quite a lot on other forums, Leif knows the one I am talking of, and I have also seen PAR readings for the BT EX 120w and they exceed 250 HQI and, without looking, I believe 400w HQI are around the same PAR. The human eye does not see all the "correct" light that corals require to be healthy, so as a lot of the LED light is at a temperture that we do not see the LED will always look less bright to the human eye than an HQI.

I believe LED are the way forward and price is how you look at it.

My first idea was to have 3x250w HQI with 2x80w T5, so buying 3x250w HQI units 2500kr pr stk and say 2x80w diy with lamps 1000kr. Total to buy 8500kr. If i run them for 10 hours a day at 2kr per kwh thats 6643kr a year plus replacement lamps 3xHQI @ 700kr ea and 2 80w @ 200 each, total running cost in 1 year 9143kr, total spent on lighting for the first year 17,643kr.

Next is LED.: 3x120w units to buy 14500kr, 10hrs a day @ 2kr per kwh 2628kr a year to run, no new lamps needed for 5 years. So total LED cost first year 17,128kr so thats 500kr less already after 1 year.

So after 3 years running these LED light will have paid for themselves, cool.

Plus with the Pacific sun units they are fully programmable, sunrise/sunset, adjustable colour settings the list goes on.

For me the LED solution is the way forward and is improving all the time, so you can argue all you like about how good they are but I will definately be buying some to light my aquarium.

[UKChris]

Here's a link to the youtube video I believe Leif was talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB61QE4LRYI

[AndersNT]

Hi Chris!

[UKChris]

Hey Anders

[leifkrarup]

Chris!...if you buy 3 units you should definately try to negotiate the price...I´m quite sure you could get a substantial discount, the manufacturer is very interested in getting his products out theese days. (unless demand now is so high that he has problems supplying.)

[Gzus.dk]

Here's a link to the youtube video I believe Leif was talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB61QE4LRYI

This video doesn't show any PAR readings ??


/Morten N

[leifkrarup]

Here's a link to the youtube video I believe Leif was talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB61QE4LRYI

No Chris...this is not the video I was writing about. I was talking of a video that shows the display of a PARmeter as the probe was being moved up and down in the actual tank. Tried to find the link but apparantly it has been removed. Have just asked the guys at MR forum if anybody knows why!

[UKChris]

Yeah that was the only one I could find. After I posted it I knew it was the wrong one.

I will see what I can do about discount Leif.

[leifkrarup]

Pic as of today from my (so far!) happy LED reef

[leifkrarup]

Chris!...before you throw a lot of money after theese units you ought to experience them IRL.
Should you some day cross the bridge you are welcome to pop in to see mine in action.
Forum member T. also have theese units and lives in Brøndbyvester (no bridge to cross ), you could try to contact him and ask to see his units.
As you can see my seriatophora seems quite happy with the new light conditions!
Photo taken from above.

[leifkrarup]

Just got an answer from MR forum. The old PAR video was made with an older model of the unit. The have made a new video with the Black Pyton model...they are going to upload this new one over the week end.

[UKChris]

Leif that's a fantastic looking tank i'd love to come see it sometime and the lights of course

[leifkrarup]

Leif that's a fantastic looking tank i'd love to come see it sometime and the lights of course

Anytime!

[Gzus.dk]

Hi Leif

I know you have read a lot about these Pacific Sun lamps. Have you found any reviews of the Deimos lamp ?

Another question, how much Watt would you recommend for a aqurium in the size of 160x70x70 ?

Would a Deimos 3 x 140w + 2 x 80w be over-kill or the 3 x 100w? Or could I just use 2 x 120w Black python.


/Morten N

[leifkrarup]

I would choose 3x120 W....of course 3x140 would be even better if you don´t mind spending the extra money and energy. But I would say 3x120 can do the trick and maybe even two with som carefull planning on where to put certain corals. With at tank hight of 70 cm I would not place Acroporas on the bottom ...but I´m guessing here, I think it would be wise to do your own researc...there´s a lot of money involved after all.
To me saving energy was the important thing when I bought my units....If they don´t perform regarding a few light demanding corals I must do without those...after all there´s a lot to choose from...but so far I´m rather confident that my units will be suffient.